Welcome to #DebateWatch where 2 opponents debate about specific topics. If you wanna take part in one of the debates make sure to contact me. Know that this debate was orchestrated by two users from a comic book app called Comics Amino and that we used the debaters’ usernames to identify everyone apart. I was happily moderating this one. Tell us who wins?
Today’s debate is between Marvelguy and Spider-Man . The debate revolves around the topic as to who is the better Spider-Man? Peter Parker? Or Miles Morales? Vouching for Peter we have Marvelguy as for Miles we got Spider-Man. Before we start let’s go over the rules:
Here are the rules:
1. Be respectful
2. You can send up to 2 messages in a row until your opponent replies with something
3. You can use a 3rd or 4th solely for the purpose of corrections or grammatical/spelling errors
4. You are not allowed to change your opening nor closing statements
5. Obey the moderator
6. You are not to delete any of your messages
Rules 2-6 do not apply to the moderator as he/she is an Emperor and it is up to them to make sure everyone is on the peaceful side of things.
Let’s start with the opening statements. Spider-Man you may present your opening.
Spider-Man: Miles Morales is not only the best Spider-Man because of his personality, but also his supporting cast, powers, etc. that make him an even more compelling character than Peter.
Marvelguy: After 50+ years of history, not many heroes have made their mark like Peter Parker, the Amazing Spider-Man. When Peter first debuted in Amazing Fantasy #15, he started a new trend of heroes like him. Ordinary everyday people trying to balance their life as a superhero and a normal person. Peter still changed the industry to this day and will continue to in the decades to come.
First question is for Marvelguy. Peter has been a beloved character throughout media, but the most prominent version of Peter we see is the classic guy who is either in high school or Daily Bugle. Do you think Peter’s days are over as the better Spider-Man since he essentially grew out or moved past those moments most associate him with?
MG: Not at all. Peter was in his prime arguably when he a young down-on-his-Luck guy, but now he’s a more mature grown-up Spider-Man. He has a company now and he uses it to save the world in ways he never could before. He’s never lived up to his Uncle Ben’s motto, “With great power, comes great responsibility” than he is now. He’s making the best of the situation he’s in, and he’s doing everything he can to be the best Spider-Man he can be, as well as Peter Parker, making time for his friends and family as well when he can.
SM: As far as Peter being more mature I cannot agree as he is still stuck in the teenage awkwardness syndrome with Dan Slott behind the writing. Overall though, I agree on the rest of Marvelguy’s statement.
MG: Even if he is awkward at some points, it’s not in the same way a teen is. He’s not reckless with his actions like a teen is, and always does the thing an adult should.
Next question for Spider-Man. Miles Morales has been accused by many as a thief by sharing his villains, love interests, etc. What do you have to say about that?
SM: First off, I do not believe Miles is a “Thief”, as many would say just because he shares villains. Miles as a character didn’t ask for Peter’s villains. But it’s simply his responsibility now as he is in a street level role as Peter is off somewhere globe trotting. And even if Peter was not, he’d still have the great power with responsibility complex simply because he has it. He has the power to do good. What better way than to share the mantel? Share the cost with someone else(Peter) As far as love interests, Spider-Gwen is from an alternate universe where the relationship is not the same as 616 Peter and Gwen. Also, Gwen could no longer be considered a love interest to steal since she’s dead and fans didn’t like her in the first place. And the two (Miles and Gwen 65) are confirmed to not be together.
MG: As a writer, Brian Michael Bendis and other writers who do Miles Morales stories could be a lot more creative when giving Miles a proper rogues gallery. There are plenty of other heroes in New York City and none of them run into Spidey’s villains other then exceptions like Black Cat who’s her own character in her own right. Miles is written pretty much always to go after Peter’s villains only. Versions of Venom, Prowler, Scorpion, and then the real versions of Black Cat, Hammerhead, etc… All of these are versions or the real deals of PETER PARKER’S villains. Not a single one of these villains have an original mantle other then the real ones who originally fought Peter. Miles hasn’t had any rogues Peter hasn’t really, since his debut. All Miles has done is borrow. As for love interests, Spider-Gwen is an alternation just like the rest. She’s not really that much of an original character.
SM: I disagree entirely, see the thing is, all of the prominent villains of Miles having mantel of a Spidey villain doesn’t make it unoriginal at all. These are all very different people with very different incarnations and backgrounds with the Originals being thrown in there to pay homage to the old Spider-Man comics or era of comics. This applies to Spider-Gwen as well. And now it looks like Miles is getting a couple of new villains anyway. And even that statement alone doesn’t take away from the Quality of his character. And the same statement that you said for Miles could apply just as well to Miguel O’Hara as his villains are just future alternate incarnations of older villains with different backgrounds.
MG: Ok, well let’s take the new Sinister Six for example:
Sandman is Peter’s, Bombshell was originally Ultimate Peter’s, Hobgoblin is Peter’s, Spot was Peter’s, Electro was Peter’s, and the only one that wasn’t Peter’s was the new Iron Spider, but he could just be another one of Peter’s enemies in disguise
SM: And even then, it doesn’t make it unoriginal. It makes sense that he would draw out Peter’s villains. He’s Spider-Man. The street level version. Like when Ben Reilly was doing the same thing for a while when he was Spider-Man. And again, it can apply to Spider-Man 2099 as well if that is the case. And even then, it doesn’t make it unoriginal. It makes sense that he would draw out Peter’s villains. He’s Spider-Man. The street level version. Like when Ben Reilly was doing the same thing for a while when he was Spider-Man. And again, it can apply to Spider-Man 2099 as well if that is the case.
MG: I’m just saying from a writing perspective, Bendis could be A LOT more creative when it comes to who Miles fights. He almost has no original villains. At the top of my head, I couldn’t name one.
SM: Spider-Man 2099’s villains by Marvelguy’s logic are no more original than what Bendis gives Miles. They’re just future versions of classic Spidey villains. That’s it.
Is that true Marvelguy?
MG: It is. Spider-Man is a hero, so I guess it’s somewhat make sense to have someone take up his mantle 70-80 years into the future, but villains?! Who wants to take up the mantle of a villain who lost several times? That doesn’t make any sense. You’d think in the future there would be a lot more original villains.
SM: Villains that are in fact different people with different back stories only under a similar mantle.
MG: But why? Why do writers have to keep going back to the same titles? Make up a brand new type of character with different powers. It’s one thing that they change the identity behind the mask, but they REFUSE to make new types of powers. They play it too safe with the mantles.
SM: The main villain of Spidey 2099 would be Alchemax if anything. And they actually did make new powers for each.
MG: Same basic ideas though. If you only ad like two or three more powers than the original it doesn’t make them that much more different.
Okay I think we can go on. Next major question is for Marvelguy. Peter has been in many eventful places. Over the past years he has become an owner of his own company. The company found itself under trouble once the headquarters was destroyed. Only years later in 2015 Dan Slott finally found a purpose and couple years later we find out Peter is loosing his company again and this time most likely for a very long time if not forever. Isn’t this recent alteration between alter egos or status quos a sign of the character weakening and being unable to find a proper staying place in which fans enjoy him in?
MG: That is true. Some people want Peter to go back to the way he was, being that same ol’ down-on-his-luck photographer. While we all love this iteration of the character, it feels like way to many steps back. What’s great about a character is how they grow, and what they do in their publication history. Is a character that interesting if they never change? Peter was a photographer for over 600 issues of Amazing Spider-Man. It’s realistic for the character to move on eventually, or else it will start to get stale.
SM: I agree completely. Another reason why I gravitate more towards other characters such as Miles as growing up on years of Peter Parker has been tired. With the character growing staler by the second in my personal opinion.
Question for Spider-Man. Many say there are weak stakes and problem solving ranges within Miles stories. Many say he will always save the day using his Venom blasts which in many comics have been used as an ex machina as opposed to Peter who has to use his wits or other means to get out of tough situations. What do you have to say in defense?
SM: I’d say that’s bull@#$%. Miles doesn’t get to just get out of situations easily with his venom blast clear and cut. He actually struggles somewhat due to his inexperience in the field. The whole gag is that he’s less creative with his powers. Which, lets be honest, makes more sense than having a teenager be precise with his webbing or let alone building it when poor.
MG: When being bitten by a spider, wouldn’t it be realistic if you were technically able to think like one as well? Because that spider would grant you ALL of a spider’s abilities. Not just strength and stickiness. Peter probably uses knowledge like that to do things like that. Also, Peter can be that smart. There are 10 year olds out there who are in college. Peter could definitely have enough smarts to make web shooters. And in a hard fight, it’s lazy writing to have a character have one move that defeats all. Green Goblin? Defeated because of venom blast. Blackheart? A ****ing demon but still gets defeated with a venom blast. The only reason Miles has ever beaten Peter in a fight is because of his venom blast. He rarely uses his smarts to get out of a battle. He just punches, webs, and venom blasts until the day is won and woopty doo! Another battle lazily won.
SM: No I don’t. Transferring intelligence from the Spider to Peter was never the whole reason he could create the webs anyway. He was just smart even though he’s supposed to be portrayed as poor. That was never even brought up at all as a plot point. In real life, a kid would struggle lot more before making Web-Shooters any how.
SM: One move doesn’t defeat all. He actually struggled and fought QUITE a bit before even stunning him back to hell. In fact I remember him taking Captain America’s goddamn shield to do it. The way he beat Peter was by using his webbing as a conductor for the venom blast. How’s that for smart? Did I also mention that he incorporated Peter’s moves into his own after watching footage of hid battles? Aptitude for learning with the materials available.
MG: Actually, have you ever read Spider-Man: The Other? It’s not the best story, but it does imply that Peter’s powers are more spiritual then scientific. Peter was even able to grow stingers for a bit and shoot organic webs.
MG: We’re talking about science fiction here, you have to suspend your belief to some degree. I mean, if you want to get super technical, Spider-Man should be able to shoot webs out of his ass. It’s a common theme that in every one of Miles’ battles, he fights for like 2-3 pages, and then he uses his venom blast. Every. Time. He might forget to use it for a second, but he eventually always uses it.
SM: Okay. I know Spidey’s powers are spiritual. But they never mentioned that he can build webs “Cuz Spider-Brains” enough or at all for me to even suspend my belief like that and ignore canon.
SM: Bull@#$%! He does not do it every time! In his recent issue he his goddamn fists to fight with Hammerhead and he ended up beaten and battered so much he had to have his mom come in and patch him up! Before that he barely uses it at all anyway as he’s taken down easily in the sitting in the tree storyline by Scorpion and so many others even in his OG series! His venom blast is also used against him in his second volume in a fight against Taskmaster as Taskmaster not the Ultimate Universe is a Power Absorber. More so blowing that Statement to virtual hell.
Question for Marvelguy. Peter has had the longer history which also means he has more bad stories under his belt such as One More Day, Clone Saga, One Moment in Time, Sins Past, etc. Most of these are still very much in continuity so how can you defend the character when he still has these clear mishaps that exist?
MG: Well first off, One Moment in Time is one of my favorite Spidey stories, but anyway, I’M JUST SAYIN’. But as for the other stories, those are bad. Peter has had many stories in the past 55 years of hiss history, so not all of them will be good. Amazing characters such as Batman and Superman have had bad ones as well. They aren’t always going to be perfect.
SM: I agree with Marvelguy. However, over the years, Peter has become a tired character because of his large amount of history. Every story has been told in the medium. From cloning, time travel, dimensional travel, so on so fourth. And now, the character his taking a few steps back going back to the Daily Bugle.
MG: Peter has had some ground breaking stories as well that people have loved. Big Time, Spider-Island, Ends of the Earth, Spider-Verse, etc… In reviews for many of these events, people have said that they’re breaths of fresh air and that there should be more stories like those coming from Marvel. And these have all been within the past 4-7 years too, which is not much time comic releasing wise. Miles as yet to have ANY ground breaking stories that changed the industry. Any big events he’s had were lackluster. Cataclysm, United We Fall, Civil War II, and UGH…. Sitting in a Tree, a critically panned story for the most part.
SM: I wouldn’t say that the stories you mentioned for Peter are groundbreaking either. Stories like those have been told before too with other characters to the point where it’s cliché and generic to a point. Not that they’re bad or anything imo
MG: According to SEVERAL reviews they sure are. If we’re going to go down the “tired story” road, the most recent issue of Spider-Man, Spider-Man #19, we’re already going back to the “Spider-Man No More” story Miles already had like 3 years ago.
MG: And speaking of stepping backwards, Miles’ mom is alive and she had to figure out he was Spider-Man ALL over again.
SM: If anything her being alive would symbolize the fact that Miles’s life doesn’t need to be driven by tragedy and she even gets a spotlight to help patch him up as Spider-Man. Something that is way more than a step back. Not to mention when she figured out he was Spider-Man in the Ultimate U, the relationship was never explored because she died. Now it is.
MG: Well maybe Peter going back to the Bugle represents who he used to be. But… With a new spin.
Final question is for Spider-Man. Some would suggest taking Miles away from the Ultimate Universe (Earth 1610) was a mistake since it put the character in a spot where he didn’t belong not to mention his stories aren’t gaining the attention from critics or fans to the same extent. Are the glory days over for Miles since he can’t meet the equal praise as he used to when many say he is in a spot he was never meant for?
SM: No. I don’t believe the glory days are over for Miles. Miles and Peter can in fact coexist. Under the simple fact that the entire concept of Spider-Man, is that anyone can be Spider-Man. So you have this adult (Peter), who has to show Miles the ropes since the destruction of the Ultimate Universe. (Which according to Spider-Man II, Miles remembers) With that, Miles does in fact belong. As far as whether or not he has just as much attention or equal praise as he did in the Ultimate U, I can not say it is relevant. Miles in his early days has had attention. But not enough. He’s just been there with other Spider-Fans raging on about how bad of a character he is. The critics not even giving him that much attention either. The same can be said currently today. Of course with his animated series and his existence confirmed to be within the MCU.
MG: Miles has gotten A LOT of praise actually. He’s gotten hate as well, but so has Peter. But Miles isn’t a character like Peter. Peter was his own original character. Back when he first appeared, no one had seen the idea of a teenaged superhero, let alone someone with spider powers. Miles, on the other hand, is just another Spider-Man. Not his own hero. Like Ganke, his best friend, recently said in Spider-Man #19, it’s time for Miles to quit or become his own thing. He’ll never truly be his own character if he’s Spider-Man. This is true story wise, as well as BTS. Bendis had no original ideas coming to mind so he thought, “Y’know what? Let’s kill Ultimate Peter and replace him with ANOTHER Spider-Man. Why not?” That’s lazy writing. MAKE ORIGINAL THINGS! It’s like those cheap rip off animated movies. Kick-Butt Panda = Kung Fu Panda. What’s Up = Up. It’s a copy that people keep making for whatever reason. Whether it’s unoriginality, or because why the hell not.
Arachnid Kid. Heh.
SM: He’s gotten praise. But not as much as he definitely could. They did have the idea of a teenaged superhero. Robin was first. But according to Stan Lee, he wanted to better represent a teenage superhero by making him relatable and not a sidekick.
SM: He is very much is own character with his own cast, powers, and personality. The only thing he has that Peter does, is the name of Spider-Man. That’s the point. ANYONE could be Spider-Man. That’s why there’s another one and so many other versions of Spider-Man. Miles was only conceptualized AFTER they killed Peter. Years after as an attempt to just have a different kind of Spider-Man.
SM: If Miles is not getting as much praise as he did, then it’d either the content of his stories, or the fans themselves. Something that I cannot accurately judge on as it could be either of the two. It could literally be any one thing.
MG: Miles debuted the same year Peter died. Miles has the same formula in his stories as Peter. It’s clear and it’s nothing fresh. Stuff like Spider-Man 2099 or Scarlet Spider are way more original. Though they do have spider powers and some of the same villains, the characters themselves are very different.
SM: Peter died sometime in 2009 or 2010.
MG: Miles was 2011. And it wasn’t a year later, it was only a few months later. It was a very short time gap.
SM: He was still conceptualized after his death.
MG: They only killed him to introduce Spider-SJW… I mean Miles Morales.
SM: Proof? Even after Miles literally came afterwards in creation? Also in response to your earlier statement, Miles having a teenager thing is not a Spider-Man centric concept at all. As he will have natural teenage tendencies as he is 16-years-old in the main continuity.
MG: Miles only appeared two months after Peter’s death.
SM: That still doesn’t prove anything. He was only conceptualized AFTER Pete’s death.
MG: EXACTLY! They had to kill Peter first THEN introduce Miles. It was two months after. Comics take time to be made. It’s not a draw and bam! Onto shelves.
SM: And again, no proof. Miles was created afterwards not before his death.
MG: He may have been created within those two months
I would say comics are also are planned ahead.
SM: Of course.
MG: Yes! Exactly. I don’t see what there isn’t to get. They aren’t going to always spell it out for you in an interview, it’s just something everyone can assume to to analysis clues hinted by the writer.
SM: Also, teenagers in comics is a trend started by Peter? No. Better and more realistic representation of teenagers was a trend by that. Because by your logic, that would mean that Blue Beetle being a teenager and acting like one is unoriginal and a Spider-Man centric concept. You also cannot assume as it could be one of the two
Okay guys! I think it’s time to wrap up! Let’s hear Marvelguy’s closing statement.
MG: Peter is definitely the best Spider-Man. He was the original person to realize “With great power, there must also come great responsibility.” Peter started from the very bottom and made it to the very top all by himself. He used to be a little comic book character for kids that was supposed to only appear once, to one of the most well known characters in history. All of the fame Peter has achieved over the years was because of what his character is. Plenty of comic book characters were created back in the 60s, but none were as amazing as Peter Parker, the one and only Spider-Man.
And now Spider-Man’s closing statement.
SM: I believe Miles is the better of the 2 because:
He is more relatable and grounded. His cast of characters show greater support and versatility. His powers give him an advantage but don’t make him too overpowered to the point where he doesn’t struggle at all. And overall, he has succeeded more at his age than Peter ever did.
Well that will bring another Debate Watch to a close! I hope you enjoyed this week’s debate. Tell us who you think had the better ARGUMENTS. Remember, if you wanna be a part of a debate make sure to contact one of the members of the Watchmen.